Social Security in Divorce
Show Notes:
Thacker Sleight attorneys delve into a candid conversation with Vonda Vantil, the Regional Public Affairs Specialist for Social Security. Join us as we unravel the intricate ways in which divorce can influence Social Security benefits.
Note: Always consult with a legal professional about specific circumstances and cases.
Episode Highlights:
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Understanding Social Security Benefits
04:00 Impact of Divorce on Benefits
07:15 Eligibility and Requirements
10:00 Calculating Benefits
12:45 Maximizing Benefits
15:30 Common Questions and Concerns
18:00 Final Thoughts
Read the Full Episode Transcript:
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Podcast Host (0:03): This Thacker Sleight podcast is hosted by Connie Thacker and Allison Sleight, two experienced attorneys who believe honesty, transparency, and knowledge are key to achieving the best legal outcomes. A variety of topics, particularly those related to sensitive family law matters, are candidly covered by Connie and Allison, other Thacker Sleight attorneys, and guests in a refreshing, timely, and practical way for listeners.
Connie Thacker (0:29): Welcome to another Thacker Sleight podcast here, again, always with my A-team, including Allison, and Emily, and Courtney, and, of course, Corey. Today we're going to be talking about Social Security benefits. We're going to start off with a general discussion and then go into a specific discussion related to some divorce issues. So with us today, we have Vonda Van Til, who is a regional public affairs specialist for Chicago's Regional Public Affairs Office. She will soon celebrate her 32nd year at the Social Security Administration. She's a Michigan native and she serves as a claims specialist and public affairs specialist in the Grand Rapids Social Security Office for 31 years, prior to joining the Chicago team in 2022. So we're super excited to have her here. It's a great treat for our clients and our audience. So we're going to ask her some specific questions and hopefully give everybody a better understanding, including ourselves, of Social Security.
Allison Sleight (1:31): So first question, what can someone do in preparation for receiving Social Security benefits?
Vonda Van Til (1:37): So first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be a part of your podcast today. So, you know, I always tell people Social Security is important at all ages, but when we get around 50, 55 years old, that's when I tell people, ah, you probably need to start doing a little preparation work, if you will, when it comes to Social Security benefits. And the first thing I tell everyone that they should do is to create a MySocialSecurity account. And that is actually something that individuals can do once they turn age 18. So once someone becomes an official adult, they can create a MySocialSecurity account. They would go to ssa.gov forward slash my account and create that account. And that is like their window, their opening to their Social Security benefits. So if there's one thing I highly recommend to everyone that's thinking about Social Security benefits and starting that planning process, create an account, because once you have an account, you can access your Social Security statement at any time. We used to send that Social Security statement out every year. And you would get it a couple months before your birthday and an annual basis. And we stopped doing that mailing.
So now individuals will only see their statement if they create a MySocialSecurity account. We do send paper statements to individuals that are age 60 and older that have not created a MySocialSecurity account. But that's it. No one else gets a paper statement. We want people to go into their account and look at that Social Security statement. Number one, make sure your earnings record is accurate. Make sure your earnings are getting posted to your record on an annual basis, because eventually the benefit that you get from Social Security is 100 percent based on that Social Security statement's earnings record. So make sure it's correct. And then the second thing is we want people to look at the potential benefits they could be due from Social Security. Retirement, survivors and disability. Very important that one understands, oh, OK, by me paying into the system, I am due these benefits. If I become disabled, if I pass away, this is what my family could get or this is what I could get at retirement. And then the last thing in the MySocialSecurity account that's really important are these calculators that we added. And it's a calculator available, available for the retirement estimate. And it's also available for the spouse's estimate, not divorce spouses, for the spouse's estimate. And the nice thing about the retirement calculator in your MySocialSecurity account is it allows you to do different retirement scenarios. Hey, what would I get from Social Security if I retired when I was 63? Or what would I get if I retired when I was 64 and seven months, etc.? And it'll spit out estimates based on those various scenarios. So it's a really cool tool to kind of play around with.
Corey (4:46): And you mentioned that the divorce spouses do not have that calculator on that website. So how would a divorced spouse get estimates for their benefits?
Vonda Van Til (4:57): Yeah, that's a question we get all the time is, you know, I'm divorced or my ex is deceased. How do I know how much I can get or if I'm even eligible on their record? And unfortunately, we don't have any online services at this time, where you can get that estimate on your ex-spouse or your deceased ex-spouse. So in those scenarios, one would have to call Social Security, they can either call the national toll free number that we have. And I'll give that number out probably a few times throughout this podcast, but it's 1-800-772-1213. And we have reps available to answer the phones from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM in the time zone that the individual is calling from. So 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM, you can call and get that estimate on that spouse, that ex spouse or deceased ex spouse's record. Or we do have local offices throughout the country, throughout Michigan, you can call your local office and ask for that as well.
Emily (6:00): One of the most difficult things for individuals when it comes to Social Security is knowing what benefits to apply for as they obviously want to get the most money payable. What do you suggest so that they can be assured they're they are receiving the highest Social Security benefit possible?
Vonda Van Til (6:17): Yes, that is. It's, it's a very difficult thing for individuals, number one, because they get overwhelmed when they're thinking about Social Security. And number two, we administer a lot of benefits. So our main benefits are retirement, survivors and disability. Those are the main benefits, but we have a lot of benefits underneath those umbrellas for the spouse, the ex-spouse, children, disabled children. So it's understandable that people are concerned about how do I know I can get the most money from Social Security. So the first thing is that we want to make sure that individuals are getting the most money possible as well. It's not like, oh, they didn't ask, so we're not going to tell them. We're going to make sure that they are doing the most advantageous choice that Social Security has for them. However, the easy thing about the, the spousal benefit and the divorce spousal benefit, the easiest thing about that is you don't really need to know what to do, as far as do I file on my own or do I file on my exes, because you are required by law to file on your own record before we will even look into additional benefits as a spouse or as an ex-spouse. So it's not like you have to decide, oh, I don't know what to do. I don't know which one I'm going to get the most money on. Nope. You have to file on your own record first, and then we will look into additional benefits second. We have what's called deemed filing, and that's exactly what it is. If you have 40 credits, meaning you're fully insured for retirement benefits, you file for that retirement benefit first, and then we will look into additional spousal benefits or divorce spousal benefits second.
Courtney (8:15): So because someone has to file for their own retirement first, maybe share some details about retirement benefits before we get into the divorced spouse's benefit.
Vonda Van Til (8:26): Yes, great idea. So before we talk about the eligibility requirements on that ex spouse's record, what is required for that retirement record? So first of all, I mentioned that you have to be what we call fully insured for benefits. That means you have to work and pay into the Social Security system in order to be due a benefit on your own record. So how do you become insured? Well, you pay that Social Security tax, and once you make a certain dollar amount, you earn a credit. So in 2023, to earn one credit, you have to make $1,640 gross. So once you've made $1,640, you've earned one credit, you can only earn four credits in a calendar year. So in 2023, once you've made $6,560, you've earned your four credits, you can't earn any more in a calendar year. Somebody could make, you know, $100,000 doesn't matter, they have still only earned four credits. How many do you need to get retirement, you need 40, which means a minimum of 10 years of working and paying into the system to become fully insured for that retirement benefit. So now you have 40 credits, you're never going to lose them. So somebody maybe, you know, works in high school, maybe they go to college, they work a little bit, they get a job outside of college, and they have the 40 credits, and then they start having kids and they leave the workforce. And maybe they never return to the workforce. They're never going to lose those credits that they earned.
They're always going to have them. So they're always going to be eligible for retirement benefits. You know, even though they haven't been in the workforce for a long time doesn't matter. You have 40 credits, you file on your own record first, you do have to be 62 years old or older to get that Social Security retirement benefits 62 years or older. If you file at 62, you get a reduced benefit and it is the maximum reduction that you possibly can get. The percentage of the reduction depends on how old you are and what your full retirement age is. So individuals born in 1960 and later, their full retirement age is 67. So that means if they want 100% of their benefit, they don't want a reduction, they don't want an increase, they just want 100% of their benefit, then they would have their retirement benefits begin with the month they turn 67. So you know, my birthday is March 19. Even though I wouldn't be 67 until the 19th, it doesn't matter. March is the month I attain full retirement age. So March is the month that I would get 100%. But if I file even one month early, I have a reduction in my benefit. Maximum reduction is at age 62. If my full age is 67, and I apply when I'm 62, I'm going to have a 30% reduction in my benefit.
And it is a permanent reduction for the rest of my life. Anytime someone files early, it's reduced. And it's always a permanent reduction. On the flip side, if I want to maximize my benefit as much as possible, I can delay filing beyond my full retirement age. And then I get a little boost in my benefit for every month I delay. They're called delayed retirement credits. And it's equivalent to 8% a year. So if I if my full age is 67, and I wait until I'm 70, I'm going to have an additional 24% added on to my full retirement age. So that's permanent increase as well. And if I pass, I'm passing that increase on to my survivor. And we'll talk about survivor benefits a little bit more later. But so that's how the retirement works. Early permanent reduction delayed a permanent increase. And one can pick I mean, any month they want based on what's going on in their life. We do have earnings limits if one wants to get a benefit prior to their full retirement age. So it is important to know that just because you're 62 doesn't mean you're magically going to start getting Social Security retirement benefits. You also have to be making under the earnings limits, unless you want to wait until your full retirement age. Because once you turn full retirement age, you can make as much money as you want. And you can get Social Security benefits at the same time. So it just depends on what the individual is doing with their work. And it depends on how much money they want to start getting from Social Security. So there's a lot of things to factor in when one's making that decision on when they want to begin retirement benefits.
Connie Thacker (13:49): Yeah, so moving a little bit into the divorce spouse benefits, I want to talk a little bit about the second application that you mentioned earlier. So my question is, if someone's retirement benefit at their full retirement age is less than half of their spouse's or ex spouse's full benefit, can they file for a second application?
And then answering that question, I'm hopeful that you can talk about the eligibility requirements for divorce spouse benefits.
Vonda Van Til (14:20): Exactly. So I mentioned earlier that someone has to file for retirement benefits first, before we're going to look into additional spouse or ex spouse's benefits. The reason they have to do that is because we need to know what an individual's full retirement amount is before we will know if they're eligible on that spouse or ex spouse's record, because their full retirement amount must be less than half of their spouse or ex spouse's full retirement amount. So let's talk about the divorce requirements, and then we'll talk about that full amount. To qualify for divorce spouse's benefits, there's a few things, there's a few factors that one has to meet before they're eligible on their ex's record. So the first thing is, you have to be 62 or older. Just like retirement, you have to be 62 or older. You also have to be that age for divorce spouse's benefits. Because you're divorced, we do have a marriage length of marriage requirement, and that's 10 years.
So you do have to be married for at least 10 years prior to the divorce. And you can't be remarried to someone else. So you know, if I have an ex out there, and I was married to him for over 20 years, and I'm currently unmarried, I might be eligible on my ex's record. And it doesn't matter if my ex is remarried to someone else. That doesn't matter. I'm the one that's going to file for the divorce benefits. I can't be remarried to someone else. Maybe I did have another marriage, and that only lasted a couple years. And now I'm divorced again.Well, I can't file on the second ex-husband because it didn't last over 10 years. But I can file on the first, because that did last over 10 years. And I am currently unmarried. It doesn't matter that I had a marriage in between there. I am currently unmarried. So I can file on the ex-record. Now, my ex also has to be age 62 or older in order for me to file on my ex's record. So if my ex is, you know, only 55 years old, I'm 62, I'm ready to file for divorce spouse's benefits. It's not going to happen because my ex must be 62 or older.
Now, does my ex have to be collecting benefits in order for me to get benefits on their record? Well, that answer is a little complicated because if we've been divorced for at least two years, so my divorce happened, say, five years ago, then my ex does not need to be collecting. Just has to be 62 or older, but does not have to be collecting. My ex can be working full-time, making top salary, doesn't matter. I can file on their record if I'm eligible. However, we have to have been divorced for at least two years. So if I have a recent divorce, my ex has to be collecting in order for me to be able to collect on my ex's record. And again, I can't get anything on my ex's record. Even if I met all of those qualifications, we just talked about, I still can't get anything on my ex's record unless my full retirement amount is less than half of my ex's.
So in other words, let's say my ex spouse's benefit at full retirement age is $3,000. Well, half of $3,000 is 1,500. My full retirement amount must be less than 1,500 in order for me to qualify on my ex's record. Let's say my own full retirement amount is $900. Okay, I can get 900 on my own. That means I can get an additional 600 on my ex spouse's record, which gives me a total of half of my ex spouse's full retirement amount. Now I'm pulling some of it from my own record and then the remainder of it on my ex's record. And those are full amounts if I waited until my full retirement age. Those are reduced if I file early. Now let's say half of my ex's is 1,500, but my own full retirement amount is 1,800. Well, then I cannot qualify for divorce. I cannot get divorce spouse's benefits because my own is more than half. So I just get my own retirement. They get their own retirement. Nobody files on anybody else's record. Now, if I am eligible for that additional 600 that we talked about, that's not going to reduce my ex's benefit at all. Me collecting on their record does not affect their benefit at all. In fact, if my ex is remarried to someone else, it's not going to affect their benefit either.
My ex could very well have a current spouse and an ex-spouse both collecting on their record and nobody affects anybody else. And that's an important point to make because a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I don't want my ex to file on my record. Absolutely don't want them on my record because I don't want it to affect my current spouse. Well, first of all, you can't tell us you don't want them on your record. You can't override federal law. And second of all, it's not going to affect their benefit at all. And a lot of times they'll say, oh, well, I put in the divorce that they can't get Social Security benefits. It says right in the divorce. No, we don't even look at that. It doesn't override federal law. If they're eligible for divorce benefits, they will get divorce benefits. It doesn't matter what you have in the divorce. So those are the requirements for the divorce spouses benefits.
Allison Sleight (20:16): Okay. And what happens if your ex is deceased? Are there any complications with that?
Vonda Van Til (20:22): Well, I, you know, this doesn't sound good, but you do get more when they're deceased. But that doesn't sound proper. So it's the same eligibility requirements. You know, you had to have been married for at least 10 years prior to the divorce. The difference is if they're deceased, you get 100% of whatever they were collecting at the time of their death. So when they're alive, you can only get 50%. When they're deceased, you get 100%. And you can remarry after the age of 60 and still qualify for surviving divorced widow or widower’s benefits. So if your ex is living, if you remarry, no, it terminates those benefits. If your ex is deceased and you remarry after age 60, you can still file on that surviving divorced spouses benefit, if you will. So 100% if they're deceased and it's 50% when they're alive. In addition, you don't have to be 62 for that widow or widowers benefit.
You only have to be 60. So you're going to get the maximum reduction at age 60. You're not going to get 100% of their benefit if you file that early. You're only going to get 71 and a half percent of their benefit if you file as early as age 60. So it's kind of like how that retirement benefit works. The earlier you file, the more reduced your benefits going to be. But you don't have to wait until 62, which is a big difference in those benefits.
Corey (22:09): And if someone is eligible for their own retirement and for the survival benefit, what are the options there?
Vonda Van Til (22:16): Yeah. So again, one of the biggest decisions individuals are trying to make is, you know, what is the right time for me to file for Social Security benefits? And how do I know what benefits to apply for? And this is probably the most common situation that we see is somebody's finally deciding to retire from their job. And they're going to file for Social Security. And they don't know what to file for because number one, they have 40 credits and they're eligible for retirement. Number two, their spouse or their ex-spouse is deceased. So they're eligible for a survivor benefit. So they don't know what to do. Do I file for retirement or do I file for survivor benefits? And we have this little, I don't know if I should call it a strategy, but we have this opportunity for someone to file for one benefit and then switch to the other benefit later. So, you know, let's say somebody is finally retiring from their job when they're 63 years old. Well, they could file for reduced retirement benefits at the age of 63. And then they can switch over to an un-reduced survivor benefit at their full retirement age, say that's age 67. So unlike the spouse, divorce spouse and retirement, where you are required to file for retirement first before we'll look into the additional spouse, ex-spouse, this is completely different.
They are not required to file for retirement. They can file for one and switch to the other later. A more common switch is somebody filing for a survivor benefit early, say, you know, at 63, they retire, they file for that surviving divorce widow's benefit. And now they're 70 and they switch over to their own retirement because they get the maximum retirement benefit payable. So they're getting that reduced survivor benefit every month until they turn 70. And then they switch to retirement and get that 124%, which often is much more than what they were getting as a reduced survivor. So there are those switching options when they're eligible for two benefits like that. So that would require someone to, you know, crunch the numbers, do some math, make sure they have the estimate for that surviving divorce widower, widower's benefit. They would get that by calling Social Security, go into their My Social Security account and get those retirement numbers and then kind of figure out the best situation for them at that time.
Emily (25:11): I think you might have started to answer this, but what is the best platform for people to apply for these benefits once they've decided to do so? You mentioned online or calling in.
Vonda Van Til (25:21): Yeah, well, there's various options for various benefits. So unfortunately, you cannot file for survivor benefits online. So if someone is filing for a surviving divorce widow's or widower's benefit, they would need to call Social Security and make an appointment. They would call our toll-free number at 1-800-772-1213. And we have representatives available between the hours of eight and seven, and they would call and make that appointment. And typically these appointments are done over the phone. There is often no need any longer to go into an office, but it is an option. If somebody is like, no, I got to have that face-to-face meeting with someone, then they can make an appointment for that face-to-face. So for survivor benefits, no online option. But for retirement spouses, divorce spouses, disability, Medicare, we haven't even talked about Medicare, all of that can be done online at ssa.gov. They can do the entire application from beginning to end right online. And that is going to be the fastest, easiest, most convenient way to apply. Not a requirement though.
If somebody is listening and they're like, oh, I hate it when they make us go online, we're not making anyone go online. If they don't want to, they absolutely can call and make that appointment. And then how do you know the timing for retirement benefits? The earliest you can apply is four months in advance of when you want your benefits to begin. So, you know, some people get really excited about getting these social security benefits and they'll call us a year in advance and, you know, I'm ready to apply. Well, unfortunately you can't, it has to be four months or less. So somebody can get that ball rolling when they're 61 and nine months old or four months in advance after that. You know, so if I wanted my benefits to say in June of 2023, I can file four months in advance of June, but keep in mind that I'm not going to get my June benefit until July because we always pay a month behind. And that's important for people to understand. We always pay a month behind. So if I want my benefits to begin in June, I would indicate on my application. I want my month of entitlement to be June, 2023, knowing I'm going to get that June check in July.
But you always say June as your month of eligibility because that's the month you want them to begin. We do have a payment calendar on our website, which is kind of nice because we used to pay people on the third of every month and that's not the case any longer. Now we pay people on Wednesdays based on their day of birth. So if you were born say on the 27th, then your payment cycle would be the fourth Wednesday of every month. And we do have a payment calendar on our website for that.
Courtney (28:30): So kind of switching gears just a little bit because we do work with people going through divorces. And one thing that I'm curious to know is how will an ex-spouse know if somebody claims the Social Security benefits on their work record? And does that person need, does the ex-spouse need to consent for that? You kind of answered that, but I'm just wondering how does that work as far as, do you need to talk to your ex about what's going on?
Vonda Van Til (28:59): Yeah, no, that is a great question. And that's kind of why we have that rule in place, if you will, that the ex must be 62 or older, but does not have to be receiving benefits in order for the ex to start collecting. Because we were finding that a lot of people were like, you know what, I'm not filing for Social Security because I don't want my ex to start collecting. And so we changed the law and we're like, hey, you know what? They don't need to be collecting anymore. The ex can come on board as long as they're 62 or older, as long as they've been divorced for at least two years. Because the worker, the ex that they're filing on will not know that they're collecting benefits on their record. They don't need to know. They do have a right to know. So if they call and say, hey, is my ex collecting on my record? We do have to let them know, but we don't give them any additional information, obviously, because of the Privacy Act. So we're not going to divulge any information other than, yes, the ex is collecting on your record. You know, they don't need to know anything beyond that. So no, we don't need the worker's permission. We are going to need the worker's Social Security number. Typically, the ex does know that. But if they don't, they're going to have to call their ex and obtain that because we don't, we would need the Social Security number. But other than that, no, they don't need to know that they're on. They don't, we don't need their permission. It's not going to affect their benefits anyway. So we get that question all the time, actually.
Connie Thacker (30:35): Yeah, it's a common question that we get, too, from spouses who think that their Social Security is going to be impacted if their ex-spouse claims after 10 years on them. But I'm also curious as to what's your opinion of does a legal separation have any impact on my ability to claim Social Security on my ex's record?
Vonda Van Til (30:57): Well, we only recognize divorces. So if you're legally separated, in our eyes, you're married. So you would file for spousal benefits, not the divorce spousal benefits. And, you know, we've seen it where somebody, you know, they've been estranged for over 30 years, but never legally got divorced. Well, then you're going to file for spouses benefits, not the divorce spousal benefits. And again, to get spousal benefits, you just have to be 62 or older. You can't file on your spouse's record until your spouse files.
So, you know, that is a little bit of a difference there with that divorce is your spouse has to be collecting before you can come on board and collect on their record. And it's important to point out that, you know, you can get your own retirement benefits when you whenever you want. And then, you know, let's say your spouse doesn't want to collect yet. Well, then you just get your own retirement. And then once your spouse files, then you can get the additional on your spouse's record at that time. Maybe it's five years later. That doesn't matter. You know, for divorce spouses, you can file on their record even if they're not collecting. So it's a little bit different play with that. But when you're married, they do have to be collecting benefits in order for you to go on their record.
Connie Thacker (32:13): Yeah. And I think that that's really important for our audience to know, not only with respect to Social Security, but if you are legally separated, that means that you're still married. So until you get that divorce decree, you are still a married couple.
Allison Sleight (32:31): As we talk about trying to get the most out of our Social Security benefits, can you tell us if we can claim on more than one ex-spouse's record?
Vonda Van Til (32:39): Oh, yeah, that's a great question. So, well, you can't collect on two exes at the same time, but it's very possible that you have two exes out there that you would qualify on. So you can just file on the higher of the two. So, you know, maybe my first ex-spouse made more than my second ex-spouse, and now I'm currently unmarried. I would want to file on my first ex-spouse then. But then I find out that my second ex-spouse passed away. Well, you get more money when they're deceased. So then I could switch from getting divorce spouses benefits on my first ex-husband to a survivor benefit on my second ex-husband. So when you have more than one ex out there that you're eligible on, you're just going to, you know, pick the one that you get the most money on. And if one passes away, typically you're going to want to switch to that record.
Corey (33:35): When we talk about divorces, one of the things that we have to do during that process is to divide marital assets. How does the division of those marital assets affect the Social Security benefit?
Vonda Van Til (33:46): So for Social Security benefits, we don't care about individuals' income, assets, resources, et cetera, because it's not needs-based at all. Social Security benefits are based on your highest 35 years of earnings. Once you're getting benefits, if you're under your full retirement age, we do have earnings limits. But that's if someone is working. So, you know, the asset allocations have no bearing on Social Security benefits at all.
Now, if you have someone that's receiving SSI, which is Supplemental Security Income, and that's for individuals that have limited income and assets and are 65 or older or disabled, you could possibly have someone who is on SSI at the age of 65 or older. And if they end up getting, you know, assets from the divorce, they very well will affect the SSI benefits because the amount you receive is completely based on your income and assets. So SSI needs-based program, it would affect, but a majority of individuals we're talking to are probably getting that Social Security benefit. And that is not based on need at all. It is not income asset resource limits at all. It's basically just based on your earnings record over your highest 35 years.
Emily (35:06): And what about cohabitation after a divorce? Does that impact Social Security benefits?
Vonda Van Til (35:12): So living arrangement does not affect Social Security benefits at all. Again, it does affect SSI. So if somebody's on that needs-based program, living arrangement definitely affects the dollar amount that you receive as well as marital status. However, for Social Security benefits, nope, it doesn't matter where one is living, doesn't matter what state they're in, doesn't matter if they're in different states, it doesn't affect their benefits at all.
Courtney (35:37): So what should one do if they are denied Social Security benefits based on the ex-spouse's record?
Vonda Van Til (35:45): Well, if they're denied benefits, it's probably because they didn't meet the eligibility requirements. So they can file for retirement on their own record, but they probably wouldn't qualify on their ex-spouse's record because they didn't meet the eligibility requirements. I mean, every time someone is denied, they have appeal rights with Social Security. So one can always appeal that. Maybe we said they didn't meet the duration of marriage requirement, but maybe one was married for eight years and then divorced and then remarried the same person in that same year. Well, we can add those two timeframes together to meet that 10-year duration of marriage requirement. So if someone was denied based on something like that, we would absolutely be able to get that documentation and redo the application based on the appeal. But if you weren't married for 10 years, which is the eligibility requirement, and you're denied, I mean, you could appeal it, but what appealable proof would you have to show that you were married for over 10 years when we saw the divorce and you were not? So every time someone is denied, they have appeal rights. But again, it's always based on law and you always can file for your own retirement benefits. It's just that additional benefit maybe one wouldn't qualify for.
Connie Thacker (37:09): Yeah, and one other thing I want to add for our audience who touched on this a little bit earlier and just in your last response, but we're dealing here with federal law. This is not Michigan state law. And so you can't just through the state documents of your divorce just say that somebody can't get your disability income because it is all federal law.
Vonda Van Til (37:32): Yes, exactly. And we do get questions a lot about common law and Michigan doesn't recognize common law. So everything is federal except we do have some state laws that we recognize and common law is one of them. So in the states where they do recognize common law, somebody could get spousal benefits based on that. But in Michigan, we do not recognize common law.
Connie Thacker (37:55): Right. That's the way that the judicial system is here too for us. So, Vonda, I want to just really on behalf of the Thacker Sleight team, thank you so much for your time today. This was very informative, not only for us, but I'm sure that it's going to be very informative for our clients and those who listen to this podcast. So thank you very much.
Vonda Van Til (38:15): Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Podcast Host (38:21): Thank you for listening to this episode of our Thacker Sleight podcast. If you have additional questions, do not hesitate to contact us at 616-888-3810 or visit our website, thackersleight.com for further information.
Navigating the complexities of Social Security benefits after a divorce can be challenging. The knowledgeable attorneys at Thacker Sleight are here to help you understand your entitlements and maximize your benefits. Contact us today for expert advice and support to ensure you receive the benefits you deserve.